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Forum:Manta Ray?
I have no idea why, but I somehow think a colossal manta ray would make an interesting Elder Dragon boss, or something. It probably use some kind of symbiote to attack, kinda like the Yama does with those Great Thunderbugs, only this one uses some kind of Remora, or something. I don't know, really, what do you guys think? any ideas on how this would work? (note: keep in mind that this thing is supposed to be freakin' MASSIVE.)Cobalt32 21:01, March 5, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I like the idea,I just don't know exactly how it would work.CrellinEtreyu 04:26, March 6, 2011 (UTC) You talking a Jehn Mohren kind of fight? Sounds pretty kick-ass! SethOmega 04:42, March 6, 2011 (UTC) @Seth: Yeah. The first stage has you following it in a dragonship on the sea, with it attacking you with jets of water (or possibly electricity), slamming the deck with one of its fins or its tail (you'll need to intercept it with the Gong or Binder), and sending its symbiotic partners (I was thinking something like some kind of remoras that live on its underside or eel-like creatures that live in its mouth) to attack you. In the second stage, the ship wrecks, and you fight it in an underwater arena-like reef, where you'll need to swim down and attack it directly or use the now-submerged, but fully functional, ballistias and Dragonator. Cobalt32 22:43, March 7, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 On second thought, I'm not sure if it should be fought from a Dragonship like Jhen Mohran in its first phase, or followed thrugh undersea caversn like Cedeus... maybe a slight combination of both?Cobalt32 15:44, March 9, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 You mean like in some sort of submarine??-CrazyOdd @Crazy:Actually, I meant maybe either having a brief "chase" stage after the ship wrecks, or being able to swim out to the Ray during the "boat" stage, but a submarine actually sounds like a neat idea, if it could be made to fit in with MH tech. 21:31, March 11, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Man, this makes me wish they let you crawl on the monster's back to fight, like in Shadow of Colossus, but for this guy, you need to fend off the symbiotes you mentioned before taking a stab at the eye ;) Could even have breakable parts you get to carve if you act before it submerges. -Turos22 @Turos: Maybe you can do that during the boat stage, like with Jhn Mohran. Then again, mantas are usually pretty flat, so there would have to e something growing on its back you could carve, or just a soft patch of skin. Cobalt32 00:32, March 12, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 @Cobalt: Maybe some giant barnacles? xD lol -Turos22 Actually, with a bit of work, we have a really god idea here...-Crazy @Turos: Maybe. I was actually thinking it could have a coral reef or something growing on its back. A manta ray wouldn't really have much to offer in terms of parts, except for maybe some flabby skin, so I was thinking this thing could be the underwater equivalent of Yama Tsukami and have its own, fully functional ecosystem; think as if it were a chunk of the seafloor come to life in manta ray form. It wouldn't be able to attack on its own much, maybe just be able to inflict major damage with its fins, slash from behind with its tail, or have some kind of water beam attack and/or use electricity,but it would be far too big and slow to actively fight on its own, so the creatures living in/on it (remoras on its underside, eels in its mouth, maybe crabs on its back) do most of the attacking for it. As such, it would have a variety of materials from said ecosystem, like some kind of coral and or seaweed, as well as its own flesh and parts yielded by its symbiotes. The only question remaining is what the heck is its equipment going to look like?Cobalt32 02:29, March 13, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Whatever it looks like, it will totally be epic xD Turos22 05:42, March 13, 2011 (UTC)Turos22 Okay, here's how I see it. There's a submarine going throught the ocean floor. The submarine is actually a delivery ship that brings stuff to other villages. Then, you see something moving on the sand. Then the Giant Manta thing appears. You can only attack it with underwater Ballistas and Cannons. Then the 2nd phase of fighting is like the Jhen's 1st fighting phase. It surfaces and you go to the top of the submarine. At the top, there are 2 ballistas and 2 cannons. Then there is a 3rd phase. You fight it on land. Pretty much like Jhen. It can shoot thunder beams from its 2 feeler-like organs on its head and shoot water from its mouth. KaiserLos 06:43, March 13, 2011 (UTC) Get an aerial battle instead of an underwater one. We have Jhen/Lao/Shen in land and Ceadeus underwater. An aerial fight would be more different and interesting IMO. Ohmpahkan 09:06, March 13, 2011 (UTC) Well, an aerial fight would be awesome, too... maybe another monster... like subspecies of the manta or something... or lets just fight Yama in that battle??-Crazy Agreed. Yamatsukami is more suitable for aerial fights. He just needs a size rearrangement. The Manta should be underwater. Ratio of land to water is 3:1. Water battles are much more needed as there are more land ones. KaiserLos 12:17, March 13, 2011 (UTC) Opps, forgot to write Crazy behind my last post, done now... back to the topic... i agree... but if this ever makes it into some game, make the game for PSP... :) @Los: Nice plan, except for the last phase. This thing pretty much has to be an all-underwater fight; it can't move on, let alone get on, dry land. @Crazy: Only if the next PSP game allows swimming like in Tri...Cobalt32 12:59, March 14, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Yah, right, forgot that P3 doesnt allow swimming :( and right again about the manta not being able to get onto land...oh, btw, can you send pms here on the wiki??...sorry for the off topic question...-crazy @Crazy: I know there's a talk page on every user page... Also, I think I've decided on breakable parts for this thing: the reef on its back is hard and deflects attackd, but it can be broken with a hammer to cut off the Manta's supply of crabs (they spawn from a small hole in the reef), both fins can be scarred, as well as its underside (breaking the latter reduces the number of remoras it can use), and part of its tail can be cut off and carved. Any more ideas, or is all that good?Cobalt32 01:21, March 15, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 @Cobalt32: I forgot, you can carve underwater :D But maybe if it dies, it will float to the top of the water. So there are 2 phases: *Underwater Battle -Modes of attack: Ballista(underwater) Cannon (Underwater) Manta's attacks: Thunder beams. Ramming the sub. Whipping the sub with its tail. Spawn symbiotes to attack you. You can go underwater to fight this thing yourself. *Water surface Battle -Modes of attack: Ballista, Cannon, Dragonator Manta's attacks: Thunder beams. Water jets. Ramming the sub. Spawn Crabs to attack you. Sincerely-KaiserLos 06:31, March 15, 2011 (UTC) @Los: If it floats to the top, then yo have to spend some of your carve time swimming up to it instead of being right where you killed it... I like the layout of your fight plan, but I think there should maybe be a third stage where the sub is stationary (either "sunk" or just floating), like with the second stage of the Jhen fight, and you have to swim out to it to attack it, like a Ceadeus. Or you could swim out during the first phase, but how would you leave the sub without flooding it, and how would you keep up with it while it's moving? Maybe the sub could have airlocks you have to enter to swim out, and some kind of tethers keeping you from drifting too far away from the sub...Cobalt32 15:54, March 15, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 1st thing about the updrifting... maybe like Yama, only in reverse? (Floating up instead of falling down) only a bit longer for the swimming... And i agree, airlocks&ropes should be there... otherwise the fight would be a bit boring....Crazy @Crazy: Yama's different; it normally floats where you can't reach it, so when it dies, it sinks, so you can. You can always reach the Manta in underwater combat, so it wouldn't necessarily need to float or sink, though it theoretically could (or maybe not; Ceadeus doesn't, and so far it's the only other underwater Elder Dragon).Cobalt32 19:54, March 15, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Well, if the sub is broken, (like the dragonship in the Jhen Battle) Then the mission would be over because the mission is to guard the sub. Even when its just "floating." It would be stupid because it is more prone to damage (well, that's what I believe) Yeah, Airlocks and ropes are a definite must. And about the carves. Maybe there should be more time. Maybe like 2minutes should be enough. But I was was thinking It will die near the sub so not much time will be consumed swimming to it. Sincerely-KaiserLos 08:38, March 16, 2011 (UTC) yupp, you're right, los... and cobalt, doesnt yama drop down from time to time??-Crazy @Los: If the side-by-side chase stage is the last stage of the fight, then yes, it will. If there is a third "underwater arena" stage, then it might not. Also, the Dragonship in the Jhen battle doesn't break in the second stage, it just converted into a mini-fortress. The sub, on the other hand, might just have the glass dome covering the "combat deck" (where all the ballistias and cannons are. It opens up during the surface phase) get broken, so it dives and hides on the seafloor to avoid further damage. And yes, it would definitely need more carve time, since it probably will yield a ton of carves, too. @Crazy: Yes, but last I checked, it usually tries to stay afloat, and only touches land when stunned or dead (or body slamming).Cobalt32 16:11, March 16, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Well, actually, i havent killed Yama...i cant get past HR5 atm... :) but well i will make it latest in a month or so... @Crazy: That's ok, I've only played Tri and only know about Yama from this wiki, anyway.Cobalt32 16:44, March 16, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Speaking of carves, I think you should be able to mine or gather from ertain spots of coral or seaweed on the Manta's back during the surface fight stage. It might not necessarily yield unique materials, but it would still give something useful...Cobalt32 23:55, March 16, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Sumthing like waterherbs or so...?? like, if you combine those with a blue mushroom, you get a deepsea potion (or sth like it) and either it allows you to stay underwater for a longer time, or it gives you a bit more HP back than the normal potion...-Crazy (P.S.: maybe someone could draw this manta) @Crazy: You can get regular herbs from underwater plants, plus there's a plant called "airweed" that can be used to make stuff for staying underwater. This thing would probably just have a couple small gathering spots that yield that and maybe some kind of special seaweed that counts as a monster material. Also, yes, this would be cool to draw. Hey, Purpelsgood, if you see this, do you feel like drawing this thing?Cobalt32 17:47, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I could try the sub and if i have an idea of the manta, maybe even the weapons... if there were some And with the seaweed as special item, that could prolly be done... and it triggered something in my head:) i have some ideas how the weapons should look like...:) @Crazy: In terms of weapons, I think it should have at least maybe a Lance or Gunlance, a DS set, a Switch Axe, Hunting Horn, a Bow and maybe a Bowgun (or parts). I have a few more ideas for fan made weapon classes, too... Cobalt32 17:56, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 well, i have some ideas how they might look like, but not much else... @Crazy: Me too. Those were the weapon classes I could picture having a "manta ray" motif. Cobalt32 18:11, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Yeah... im thinking about what damage and so on they should do.. of course water element... but the rest depends on: is there some upgrade, when does the manta appear in the game and so on... @Crazy: I picture this guy being late in the game as a high-rank quest, and each weapon would probably have at least one upgrade.Cobalt32 23:55, March 18, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 I have a pretty good idea as to what it looks like...and I have it on Paper! Woot. Now its only a matter of putting thr drawing on the scanner and *Boom there it is. KaiserLos 09:38, March 19, 2011 (UTC) So I guess its around 1000 to 1200 raw, and 400-500 waterdamage for the LS and medium blue sharpness?And Lance/ Gunlance around 400-500 with 400 or so Water... and maybe (if gunlance) shelling 3 with long or spread or so... im working on the details atm... and los, that would be great...- Crazy @Los: Cool! Where is it? @Crazy: uh, don't you mean GS? LS doesn't have that kind of sheer power... The Lance/GL stats sound good, though. I would picture the Lance having a Manta-shaped shield and uses the Mnta's tail tip as the lance itself, while the GL would have maybe a slightly different shaped shield, and tha gun would be made of coral. Cobalt32 17:31, March 19, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Huh, well, Akantor Katana has 1200 raw but crappy sharpness so the LS should maybe be around 900-1k while the GS has the above mentioned stats... sounds better... and the desings sound good.. and the Bowgun maybe just some crossbow with algaes (?) hanging from it...?-Crazy @Crazy: I was thinking something closer to the Jhen Cannon, but with (of course) a manta-ish look to it, you know, like the manta's mouth and feelers for the barrel. The bow could have a seaweed drawstring, or something... Cobalt32 20:40, March 19, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 @Purpel: Awesome. Thanks in advance. Cobalt32 20:56, March 19, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 @Purpel: saw it and responded. Cobalt32 01:42, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Well, here's the picture: Well, Im not sure about it having real wings, shouldnt it be more like a manta ray? those dont have wings but those strange fins...-Crazy Here's my picture, I did another one but Cobalt asked me to change it. So now it looks pretty much like a big Manta Ray with barbs. PurpleIsGood 13:21, March 20, 2011 (UTC) Still not quite right... Look, just start with a plain ol' real life manta ray, magnify it 5000x, make its back look like a chunk of seafloor, put some barbs on its tail (mostly near the end), add a cr*pload of remora-like fish to its underside (feel free to give these guys teeth), and that should be about it. If you feel like it, you could maybe design the sub you fight it in, too. The only major detail we've settled on is that it needs a glass-domed "battle deck" on the top where the ballistias and cannons are. The glass should probably have a reinforced metal frame for stability that allows it to open sideways when the sub surfaces. The rest is up to you, it just needs to look MH tech. Sub should be big, and the ray should be bigger still. Cobalt32 13:55, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 and it should be woodenor something like that, cant imagine the game with some modern submarine...-Crazy Whatever, I'm done drawing for you. Draw it yourself, if you ain't happy. I'm trying to make this thing look like it would actually fit in a MH game, not some blow up of a real live manta.PurpleIsGood 15:04, March 20, 2011 (UTC) Sorry... Oh, no no no. I wasn't yelling at you. PurpleIsGood 15:35, March 20, 2011 (UTC) I know, but i said it should look more like some real life manta :) I mean I not going to stick a plain, oversized Manta in MH.....if you're going to have this idea actually make it cool and interesting. PurpleIsGood 15:43, March 20, 2011 (UTC) Actually, i dont like those wings you draw... the creature itself is great...-Crazy The first draft I did was better...check out Cobalts Talk Page and look that the first one. PurpleIsGood 16:21, March 20, 2011 (UTC) Better imo, but maybe a bit small those wings!?? okay ill be quiet for a bit, you still draw a lot better than i do :)-Crazy @Purpel: It wouldn't look exactly like a real Manta, it would probably have a different skin texture and a few other "monster" like qualities, I was just talking about its body shape. The real manta ray's wing shape is already plenty cool, no need to fix what's not broken. Cobalt32 18:22, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 In short, my only actual complaint about your design is the fins. That's pretty much the only thing that needed changing. Cobalt32 18:42, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 Well, er, sorry for flippin out, kinda tired. PurpleIsGood 18:44, March 20, 2011 (UTC) @Purpel: That's ok; no hard feelings. Cobalt32 19:04, March 20, 2011 (UTC)Cobalt32 -Cool idea, im thinking it would be like Ceadeus (MHTri)? maybe with some kind of feeder/sucker fish that feed on it that it shakes off when you attack it enough and they attack you? also, if its a HUGE manta ray why not a sting ray ? it could make an electric discharge with its tail, like lagriacrus body discharge and have spikes on the end that it wips from side to side as an alternate attack? could be an awesome battle with some really cool weapons and armour! {Drake Hunter} 02:10, 25 March, 2011 @Drake: It's kinda like a cross between a Ceadeus and Jhen fight; first stage has you following it underwater in a "Dragonsub" (there's airlocks that let you leave and attack from up close, with tethers keeping you attatched to the sub so you don't need to worry about getting left behind), then in the second stage, the sub surfaces and the top opens, allowing you to fight it like the Jhen Mohran, and you will also be able to jump on it back at cerain points and gather or mine from the seaweed and coral gowing on its back. I was also thinking of a third stage where the sub is hiding on the seafloor (the dome on top shattered, but the sub itself is intact), with the ray circling overhead; this would be the "final showdown" stage. And yes, it does have Remoras attatched to its underside that can attack you, as well as eels living in its mouth, and crabs that spawn from a cave in the coral reef on its back. Also, even though it has the body shape is that of a manta ray, it borrows traits from other rays as well, like an electric discharge ability and (venomous?) barbs on its tail. It can also can fire high-pressure streams of water from its mouth, kinda like Ceadeus. P.S. no, I haven't yet decided what its armor would look like, but I've got some ideas for weapons.Cobalt32 20:07, March 24, 2011 (UTC) Hey, can someone just compile the weapons and armor all over here? and by the way, Cobalt, whats the color suppose to be? the shade of the manta's eyes, stuff like that.-draco. And also, Im thinking of giving it a skulled look. Just like masking the manta's head with a "skull" to give it a more unique and monstrous look. Also, the crabs on its back, Instead of spawning from a coral reef, some of the crabs ARE the coral reef. One more thing, The remora's would apear as serpentine, making the manta look like it has tentacles. I dunno, I just thought these would make it look more interesting. @Draco: I was thinking this thing will have: -a Lance and Gunlance, both having a manta-shaped shield, but the Lance is made from the end of the Ray's tail, while the Gunlance is constructed from coral; -a GS shaped like one of its fins; -an LS, like a katana with a decorated hilt and seaweed streamers attatched to it; -either an SnS or DS set, maybe both, with the blade shaped like a fin and the shield being made of coral, while the DS set is made from its feelers and inflicts electric damage; -a Hunting Horn of some sort, maybe with the mouth resembling that of the Ray'; a Bow shaped like an outline of its front, with a seaweed drawstring; -and a Bowgun, something like the Jhen Cannon, but with a manta ray-like motif. I also have a couple ideas for some of my fan-made weapon classes, if you're interested... ...how does a manta ray fit a skull on its head? maybe some of the coral reef near its head could resemble a skull, but then again, that might not look very MH-ish...idk, I guess we can see what that would look like... The crabs disguised as part of the reef might be good, especially if they resemble mineable spots, but there has to be a way their absenc won't be important, maybe most spawn from the cave, but some live on its back as fake mining spots? The remoras probably shouldn't be serpentine because that would overlap with the eels. They would still need to have some offense traits, maybe barracuda teeth, or something, to distinguish them from real remoras. Personally, I think spewing slimy, slithery things from its mouth would be more interesting than having tentacles on its back. As for the color scheme, maybe its underside would be a bluish white, like a Great White's underside, while its back would be dominated by the reef, but would be a navy blue color underneath, with a rough, scaly appearance. Cobalt32 12:51, March 25, 2011 (UTC) On second thought, maybe its actual skin should be a more faded color... nah, let's just cover it with sediment, seaweed, and coral until it's wounded. Cobalt32 13:33, March 25, 2011 (UTC) Change of plans: ditch the skull thing; it would look unnatural and unnecessary. MH isn't known for monsters with purely cosmetic details like that. Pokemon, yes, but not MH. MH monsters have more natural looks to them; their designs make sense: they look adapted/designed to live the way they do, and this Manta Ray should be no exception. This thing isn't Bulbasaur; it wasn't born with a reef on it's back, it's an Elder Dragon; it's so massive and ancient that a layer of sediment has collected on its back and a coral reef and a bed of seaweed have grown from it, and various sea creatures have adapted to live in/on it with no harm to the Ray. It's so big that it doesn't really care that they're there. It doesn't exactly control them (though it can inadvetently force eels out of its gullet), they're just defending their home, which just so happens to be a massive Elder Dragon that tough guys in suits have been hired to kill using giant swords and a submarine. With all that in mind, I ask you: how and why the heck would it get a skull on its head? Besides, the skull motif would be out of place on this guy, because it's an image associated with death amongst an ecosystem teeming with life. Cobalt32 17:08, March 25, 2011 (UTC) Well, okay, if it's really that out of place. then ditch it. But I want you to see it first, I get your point, but like Purple said, there has to be something that makes it different from a manta. If you remove the coral and seeweed and reduce its size to that of a normal manta, could you distinguish it from others? Yes, it has to look natural and each part should fit. Well, whatever it's gonna look like, I'll show what I made first: what I made is the mapping room, or where the steering happens, with the manta seen behind a glass dome,letting out the eels inside it's mouth. It's the front of the ship, while the battle deck is on top. The whole place uses a hydraulic system to define the ships whereabouts, I thought this would be more fitting than using electrical apparatus, since electricity isn't actually used yet in dragon ships. But I don't know how it works myself, and the piping's rusted, gives it an ancient look, like it was hauled beneath the ocean. About 30 felynes runs this part of the ship, I don't know how many people a real submarine takes to run itself, and there's a chandelier thingy that's actually orbs of glass with thunderbugs inside. There are lots of tubes where water pumps, levers, and an organ like device, in the center of it all is the helm. There's also one of the eels attacking the ship behind the glass. Well? how does it look? @Draco: Um... that doesn't look like a manta ray by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, it should be "monsterized", but it should still be recognizeable... think like how they made Yama Tsukami out of an octopus. Give it teeth, spines, tendril-like appendaged near its tail, anything that would make it look like what a manta ray would look like in the MH universe, then make it giant and add the reef and symbiotes and stuff, just as long as it's recognizeable as a manta ray. I'll admit though, that thing looks freakin' scary as heck, but it looks more like some sort of sea serpent. It's no ray, but it still looks like an awesome monster concept. Just a note though, I think the eel might be a wee bit too big. The symbiotes are all classified as small monsters (and they all would have their own separate Hunter's Notes entries) since they're mainly just helping out the ray since they live on it and not necessarily because they're part of the ray. Keep in mind that the ray is capable of attacking on its own, the symbiotes mostly just provide cover since it's so big and slow. Interesting sub design, by the way. The tech level seems just about right for MH, and the lack of rust-proof metal kinda makes sense for that time period. Can't help but wonder what the organ's for... is it like a primitive substitute for an intercom system? Cobalt32 14:46, March 26, 2011 (UTC) Er...I thought the organ thing was a bunch of spears...PurpleIsGood 15:00, March 26, 2011 (UTC) @Purpel: That scene is of the bridge; it's separate from the combat deck, where all the fighting actually occurs. So... this part would probably only be seen in the ecology video... Cobalt32 15:38, March 26, 2011 (UTC) @Draco: I just thought of another example of what the basic manta should look like: compare a great white shark to the Sharq from Tri; it should have those kind of differences. Cobalt32 00:05, March 27, 2011 (UTC) Okay, I have a better pic here. That was just a close-up, but here's the real one. And does anyone mind if I make a FanFic about this? I think the whole concepts that awesome to start a story. Ok, that's about it. Maybe I'll get a pic in the battle deck, over-looking the manta from above.-draco. @Draco: Awesome. Also, yes. Feel free to use the Dragonsub in your fanfic; it works in so many situations that I really can't lay claim to it. You can keep the monster in the pic, too; he's not really my idea in the first place. Cobalt32 01:16, March 28, 2011 (UTC) Speaking of fanfics, do you mind if I use the first sketch that i sent you in mine? I know you didn't use it, but I did draw it for you. PurpleIsGood 01:20, March 28, 2011 (UTC) @Purpel: Sure. It was close enough to my monster (I just thought the wings were a bit too skinny was all), but feel free to use him in a fanfic; I probably won't be writing one anytime soon (unless its ecology video and Hunter's Notes entries count as fanfic), anyway. Plus I kinda want to see what names you'd come up with for it and its symbiotes, since I can't really think of anything except maybe calling the remora-like creatures Remorex, since they'll probably be Piscene wyverns while the eels are fish and the crabs are carapaceons. ...Nothing's official yet, so you can still call them something else, if you like. Cobalt32 01:27, March 28, 2011 (UTC) Well, I may or may not use it, depending on how I decide to direct the story after the end of Tears for the Fallen. And that was a giant spoiler. PurpleIsGood 01:29, March 28, 2011 (UTC) @Purpel: Fair enough. @Draco: Just a few tips if you do decide to draw the combat deck, it should be about the size of the deck of a Dragonship, maybe bigger, with similarly placed cannons and ballistias. The ballistias should probably be in rotating glass orbs, like the mahine guns on some planes, so you can move and aim without letting water in, while the cannons just stick out the sides. I was thinking the airlocks would be somewhere in the back, four total; feel free to arrange them as you please. The Dragonator itself probably wouldn't be on the deck, instead somewhere on the front of the sub, but you would still have the firing mechanism and a giant targeting reticule you can look through at the front of the deck. I don't know if the dragonsub would have a gong, but if it did, you would only have to put the trigger on the deck, not necessarily the whole thing. You could decide where the ammo is stored. There maybe could be more ballistias and cannons and such lining the sides of the sub that the player can't control, like the NPC sandskiffs in the Jhen battle, if that sounds ok. Cobalt32 01:57, March 28, 2011 (UTC) Great! thanks, I've got the first two chapters already. About the names, maybe, since the manta has a chunk of land on it, maybe...I guess you'll just have to see the story. It wouldn't be much of a surprise if I tell.-draco. @Draco: K. Could you post a link to it here ot on my talk page when it's up? Also, just a reminder, in case I forgot to mention: the roof of the combat deck needs to be able to open/retract for the surface battle. Cobalt32 15:33, March 28, 2011 (UTC) Just found this, sounds a bit interesting for this topic: "Its ancestors floated on water, but since then it has evolved." (From Yama Tsukami Ecology) Something like that could be used by the manta, couldn't it? (to distinguish it from real life mantas)CrazyOdd 18:42, April 2, 2011 (UTC)CrazyOdd @Crazy: But it's already in water... Maybe it can breach and breifly fly during the surface battle? Cobalt32 19:07, April 2, 2011 (UTC) Idk, just thought you could use it somehow... or we could create another monster, some sort of ancient yama...CrazyOdd 19:17, April 2, 2011 (UTC) @Crazy: huh, maybe. Hey, I just thought of something potentially cool, what if the manta had an extra pair of (smaller) fins? Cobalt32 19:20, April 2, 2011 (UTC) Now that you mentioned it, it does make the monsters look change dramatically.It's something that really makes the manta unique.- draco @Draco: Thanks. I just thought of that at random, and thought it looked pretty cool. The two sets of fins moving alternately would look pretty ominous from a distance, IMO. Something else I thought of; you would be able to get on its back during the surface phase, but what would be the best way to do that? Cobalt32 13:16, April 4, 2011 (UTC) The double fin thing like some of the animals in Avatar?? idk how they are called but you can see them flying in the first 30 mins or so... and for the "mounting" of the manta(okay, couldnt find a better verb), maybe you hide behind something while it smashes its fin down on the sub... then you just walk up the fin...?CrazyOdd 14:07, April 4, 2011 (UTC) Well I like this idea so far. Here's my idea on this matter. It's not as flashy or exotic as the other ideas here, but I prefer the basics when it comes to the giant monsters. I made a giant Mantaray with giant sea weed covering parts of its body with some other monsters like the modern day feeders, but giant acting as its minions. This monster is also able give off a small electrical field around it's body as a self defence machanism. Jesse 14:23, April 4, 2011 (UTC) @Jesse: ...That's pretty much a watered-down version of my idea... Cobalt32 14:50, April 4, 2011 (UTC)